Get There Yourself
Mar. 20th, 2009 09:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ellenmillionI got an email yesterday. It's not the first email I've ever gotten on the topic, and I doubt it will be the last.
I found your "Portrait Adoption" site and have a question.
How would I go about setting a site like this for myself?
And where would I find my artists?
I don't need to sound naive, but I am really very new to all this.
My initial reaction is disbelief. Portrait Adoption is arguably one of the most unique features of my site, and this person wants to set up a similar site - in competition with me. They can't honestly expect me to tell them exactly how to do so and where to get artists? Surely, I must be mis-interpreting this email; it just boggles me that anyone would be so shameless about their entitlement.
Honestly, I've enabled people like this once before. More than once, even. When I first started my business, I got a very nice letter from a penpal asking how I got things going and what techniques I used, etc. I wrote back with painstaking detail, and was still somehow surprised when they cloned my entire operation with their own artwork and started advertising in the same places I did*. I don't know why I still insist on being surprised by these things. Hopeless optimism must run in my veins. (This would explain a lot, actually...)
The Internet actually makes this easier. Here is this smorgasbord of sites that people can just lift without asking or questioning. Someone here in cyberspace has a good idea? Just copy it!
You know what, I'm going to tell you all my secrets.
I'm going to tell you what paper I use, and what ink, and what printer to buy, and how to make taxes less crazy-making. I'm going to tell you what techniques I use for artwork, and how I arrange my files. I'm going to show you my Photoshop secrets and explain how to code or how to hire a coder. I'm going to hand you every tool you need and share every one of my experiences. Oh wait... I already do that.
You want to try to copy the ideas I come up with? Knock yourself out.
None of it will matter in the slightest, because the number one thing that you need in this field is staying power.
If you haven't got the very basic ability to do your own research and answer questions this elementary, you won't last a year. I don't care how many shiny toys you buy, how much text you copy and paste into your webpage, how derivative you look or even how good an artist you are (or can bamboozle into working with you). If you haven't got the passion to do it your own way, you simply haven't got what it takes.
Never take the easy way out. Never accept the path of least resistance.
I am a unique artwork sales site on the web in that I don't feel threatened by my own artists. I have no exclusive restrictions. I don't care if they link to their own site where they sell the same products. I don't mind if people take their commissions and customizations off of the Portrait Adoption site and cut me out of the payment loop - I go so far as to actively encourage it. My artists have enough talent and skill to wipe the floor with me, and many of them have their own 'competing' businesses that are far, far more successful.
For me, it's not about competition, or the "loads of cash**" I make off of my sites. It's about creation, growth, encouragement and giving opportunities to people who may not otherwise have them!
You want to make your own multi-artist site? Here's a tip: you don't find artists, you earn artists. You spend fifteen back-breaking*** years refining your products and improving your process and treating people right such that they want to license with you. You deal with customers and artists honestly and upfront, you don't make promises you can't keep, and you adapt to the input you get. Reliability wins over razzle dazzle in the long term.
There were a series of sites I had a lot of jealousy over in the not-so-distant past. They licensed artists I wish I licensed, and had products I wish I made and were so glittery and fancy that I felt like I had utterly, completely failed by comparison.
But jealousy is unproductive and glitter is a pain to vacuum out of the carpet. I continued to slog along doing what I thought I should. I improved the products I could, and sadly accepted some things as simply being out of my reach. I prioritized, juggling family and day job with artist needs and customer service. My business was already bigger than I had ever envisioned - if I just continued at this pace, maybe someday I could aspire to such heights.
That jealousy? Is so long gone and buried. The artists were miserable with the company, and the horror stories I heard about their contracts made me wince. The quality of the products was shoddy at best and the customer service was a horror. Within a few years, they were a laughing stock - the butt of inside jokes and parody sites. Artists bailed like... well, one doesn't like to compare them to rodents on a sinking boat, because many of them were lovely people who ended up licensing to me - those that didn't swear off of licensing entirely and vow to stay away from the whole greedy, commercial world of fantasy art. Some of them even stopped doing art, which I consider the greatest tragedy of the whole mess.
My point here is not 'I won,' which is possibly how it could be taken. My point is that if you want to keep artists, you have to treat them with respect, listen to them, address their concerns, and bust ass on their behalf.
There are no secrets. There are no formulas for success. There are no shortcuts.
What there is: hard work, tough decisions, doubt, errors, apologies, blistered fingers, calluses, learning, trial and error, trips to the post office that last hours, paperwork, headache and heartbreak.
And, if you are very lucky, at the end of it all, you may make a living off of it (I don't, yet), and even better, you may have the respect of your artists and the loyalty of your customers, a sliver of Internet fame and some neat products you can point at with pride.
I think it's worth it.
If you're writing me emails like this - you probably won't.
*The 'end' of that story could be considered karmic justice - I actually feel a little bad for that person, because their business floundered while mine keeps growing despite myself. I would feel worse for that person if they did not persist in CCing me with a hundred other people I don't know about how awful and tragic and depressing their life is every other month or so.
**Tears of laughter!!
***Technically, you know, the back-breaking occurred before the business, but, you know, figuratively... Har har har.
I found your "Portrait Adoption" site and have a question.
How would I go about setting a site like this for myself?
And where would I find my artists?
I don't need to sound naive, but I am really very new to all this.
My initial reaction is disbelief. Portrait Adoption is arguably one of the most unique features of my site, and this person wants to set up a similar site - in competition with me. They can't honestly expect me to tell them exactly how to do so and where to get artists? Surely, I must be mis-interpreting this email; it just boggles me that anyone would be so shameless about their entitlement.
Honestly, I've enabled people like this once before. More than once, even. When I first started my business, I got a very nice letter from a penpal asking how I got things going and what techniques I used, etc. I wrote back with painstaking detail, and was still somehow surprised when they cloned my entire operation with their own artwork and started advertising in the same places I did*. I don't know why I still insist on being surprised by these things. Hopeless optimism must run in my veins. (This would explain a lot, actually...)
The Internet actually makes this easier. Here is this smorgasbord of sites that people can just lift without asking or questioning. Someone here in cyberspace has a good idea? Just copy it!
You know what, I'm going to tell you all my secrets.
I'm going to tell you what paper I use, and what ink, and what printer to buy, and how to make taxes less crazy-making. I'm going to tell you what techniques I use for artwork, and how I arrange my files. I'm going to show you my Photoshop secrets and explain how to code or how to hire a coder. I'm going to hand you every tool you need and share every one of my experiences. Oh wait... I already do that.
You want to try to copy the ideas I come up with? Knock yourself out.
None of it will matter in the slightest, because the number one thing that you need in this field is staying power.
If you haven't got the very basic ability to do your own research and answer questions this elementary, you won't last a year. I don't care how many shiny toys you buy, how much text you copy and paste into your webpage, how derivative you look or even how good an artist you are (or can bamboozle into working with you). If you haven't got the passion to do it your own way, you simply haven't got what it takes.
Never take the easy way out. Never accept the path of least resistance.
I am a unique artwork sales site on the web in that I don't feel threatened by my own artists. I have no exclusive restrictions. I don't care if they link to their own site where they sell the same products. I don't mind if people take their commissions and customizations off of the Portrait Adoption site and cut me out of the payment loop - I go so far as to actively encourage it. My artists have enough talent and skill to wipe the floor with me, and many of them have their own 'competing' businesses that are far, far more successful.
For me, it's not about competition, or the "loads of cash**" I make off of my sites. It's about creation, growth, encouragement and giving opportunities to people who may not otherwise have them!
You want to make your own multi-artist site? Here's a tip: you don't find artists, you earn artists. You spend fifteen back-breaking*** years refining your products and improving your process and treating people right such that they want to license with you. You deal with customers and artists honestly and upfront, you don't make promises you can't keep, and you adapt to the input you get. Reliability wins over razzle dazzle in the long term.
There were a series of sites I had a lot of jealousy over in the not-so-distant past. They licensed artists I wish I licensed, and had products I wish I made and were so glittery and fancy that I felt like I had utterly, completely failed by comparison.
But jealousy is unproductive and glitter is a pain to vacuum out of the carpet. I continued to slog along doing what I thought I should. I improved the products I could, and sadly accepted some things as simply being out of my reach. I prioritized, juggling family and day job with artist needs and customer service. My business was already bigger than I had ever envisioned - if I just continued at this pace, maybe someday I could aspire to such heights.
That jealousy? Is so long gone and buried. The artists were miserable with the company, and the horror stories I heard about their contracts made me wince. The quality of the products was shoddy at best and the customer service was a horror. Within a few years, they were a laughing stock - the butt of inside jokes and parody sites. Artists bailed like... well, one doesn't like to compare them to rodents on a sinking boat, because many of them were lovely people who ended up licensing to me - those that didn't swear off of licensing entirely and vow to stay away from the whole greedy, commercial world of fantasy art. Some of them even stopped doing art, which I consider the greatest tragedy of the whole mess.
My point here is not 'I won,' which is possibly how it could be taken. My point is that if you want to keep artists, you have to treat them with respect, listen to them, address their concerns, and bust ass on their behalf.
There are no secrets. There are no formulas for success. There are no shortcuts.
What there is: hard work, tough decisions, doubt, errors, apologies, blistered fingers, calluses, learning, trial and error, trips to the post office that last hours, paperwork, headache and heartbreak.
And, if you are very lucky, at the end of it all, you may make a living off of it (I don't, yet), and even better, you may have the respect of your artists and the loyalty of your customers, a sliver of Internet fame and some neat products you can point at with pride.
I think it's worth it.
If you're writing me emails like this - you probably won't.
*The 'end' of that story could be considered karmic justice - I actually feel a little bad for that person, because their business floundered while mine keeps growing despite myself. I would feel worse for that person if they did not persist in CCing me with a hundred other people I don't know about how awful and tragic and depressing their life is every other month or so.
**Tears of laughter!!
***Technically, you know, the back-breaking occurred before the business, but, you know, figuratively... Har har har.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 07:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 07:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 08:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 08:44 pm (UTC)*rolls eyes* People are so lazy and think everything should be handed to them...especially if someone else did all the hard work...why should they?
You handle them so well. And you definitely have staying power and entrepreneurism and drive and everything you need to succeed. Unlike everyone who asks you a question like that.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 08:55 pm (UTC)LOL... if someone has to ask Where do I find artists, they're not in any position to be manning a site FOR artists. XD
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 02:00 am (UTC)I love that.
*And sadly, maybe they are*
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 09:12 pm (UTC)It's a lot like being a writer, really. Or an artist. People come around looking for a magic formula, but while you can give them the tools, you can't give them the stamina and drive to spend 20 years or more learning to use those tools and pushing through the attendant heartbreaks and setbacks. Not to mention that a) the time that you spend showing them how to use the tools takes time away from your work; and b) the more hand-holding they want, the less likely that the time you're investing in them will be worth it.
(The sheer gall of someone asking how to set up a business in order to compete with you still boggles me, though...)
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 12:39 am (UTC)I'm not sure why so many people are looking for a magic bullet to becoming good/published/famous--I suspect it's a number of reasons. Sure, laziness is an obvious one, but there's ignorance too, ignorance of the actual process involved from going to green newb to successful wossname. They see the beginning point and the point they want to be at, they see the big-deal instant success stories, and they assume there must be some secret way to getting that success.
People in general seem to have a hard time believing success could be as simple as a lot of nose-to-grindstone, because they conflate 'simple' with 'easy', especially when it comes to anything as mythicized as art, writing, music, and other creative endevours.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 09:17 pm (UTC)They want to be my competitor why should I help them along? :p
But you nailed it there. Staying power, work and hustle. You do it better than most people I've ever met, Ellen. THAT sense of entitlement just seems to be getting worse and worse each year, so I wouldn't be surprised if you start getting even more.
After all anyone can make a go out of an online business cause its soooooooo easy./sarcasm at the twats.
Blech. Hugs and tea... <3
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 11:12 pm (UTC)What I've noticed is that I've started getting e-mails from other finnish artists who ask me "Oh, how have you become so big that you have your work lisenced with companies in america and live with what you do??" Well, they don't know that I've been painting since I was 7 and finally now maybe getting where I want with my technique and subjects and that I make most of my money with other design jobs since I am a graphic designer who does layout for commercial brochures and such. The best sales I do is in my exhibit every summer where I sit and sell my work for 6 hours every day during a month and the royalties of my licensing agreements altogether in a year makes about 20$. I've just thought that if it'll come to me, it will, but I just want to enjoy making art and if someone likes it and even buys it, it fuels my fire even more like it has :)
I've tried to be the kindest I can in replying back but yet I sense a little vibe of disappointment when I answer that "all you need is hard work and respect and love for what you do". But that's the best I can say since it's the truth and what I do know, is that when an artist paints a piece from the heart, the viewers sense that.
I'm a helpful person who wants to share information but then another side of me sometimes asks, what about business secrets? If someone doesn't figure something out on their own like I did the hard way and when no one helped me, why should I answer to them just so they could do the same? Especially if the question comes from a complete stranger who I don't even know...
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 11:14 pm (UTC)Let 'em find a Funk and Wagnall's.
I don't think I could be as NICE as you are about it - I'd prolly let 'em have it with both (ink) barrels.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 11:25 pm (UTC)Or you could go, "Sure I'll teach you the secrets of my success! I take on one or two people exclusively every time the moon turns to cheese. It's your lucky day! You can register for $199."
no subject
Date: 2009-03-20 11:49 pm (UTC)When will people start thinking before they write email?
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 12:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 12:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 02:04 am (UTC)I ran an online art community for about 10 years. While the competitors refused to allow their artists to do anything on other art communities, tried to restrict what art they could create and when, I happily went about my business. When someone wanted to start a competing website, I usually helped them along by giving them some brief but helpful advice.
In the end, the other community would inevitably die, or the admins would stuff up in a big way and drive away the artists that make any art website.
And I'd just continue on and smile sweetly, knowing that in the end, people would come back to me if I offered what they wanted and needed.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 02:09 am (UTC)I do think it's rather lame and that the person has a lot of gall to ask you to tell them exactly how to do what you do. Did you reply with the links to the books? I hope you did. Innocent inquiry is one thing ... but stating you want to know it all so you can set up a competing site...sorta proves they don't have enough brain cells to succeed at such an endeavor.
Sorry for the rant.
I just am still surprised - continually - that common sense isn't so common.
*Plus I think you do well, or one of the reasons you do well, is that you RESPECT people. You tend to gravitate and want to do business with people you know will treat you with respect, who have integrity and are honorable. And you are all of those*
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 03:04 am (UTC)Oh thanks for that mental image! Artist pole, hee. XD
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 03:43 am (UTC)"those that didn't swear off of licensing entirely and vow to stay away from the whole greedy, commercial world of fantasy art."
I came mighty close, but I'm playing with the website now, and I still have to add the section that links to my stuff on EMG but I'll get there.
But I won't quit my day job, and if I get laid off again I will definitely find another one as soon as I can.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-21 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-25 10:06 pm (UTC)------
"There's Ellen again, out going fishing for artists in the pond with her artist pole*"
Hoo, that is so funny!